Curse

viper11025 · Nov 21, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

/sticky and close thread

12chars

Abedeus · Nov 21, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

Well I wouldn't say Faction doesn't effect the economy so quickly. Faction can turn into amber and jade which can be sold and thus throw more gold into the economy which causes it to be affected. Faction can also be trade for Zashien keys which also can be sold into the economy for 4.5-5k and thus affects the economy as well though it doesn't create new gold into it. And just because it doesn't create new gold doesn't mean it can't affect the economy as this gold used for buying keys is gold not used for buying other goods and once the keys are used that gold is gone forever so it really does affect the economy more than one thinks.

Faction from Books is added directly to the title. It can't be used to buy skills, materials, scrolls or can't be donated for doubled amount.

cataphract · Nov 21, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

There is no economy. Or it's just so broken you'd have to use a microscope to look for it.

So, what you're saying is that GW economy may or may not exist?

Gill Halendt · Nov 21, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

So, what you're saying is that GW economy may or may not exist?

I think he's saying:

- that economy has really nothing to do with the complaints about book. Had factions awarded for a completed book been retroactive, it could have gone straight to your title track. Even if they went for the "pay-per-fill-pages" route, they could have just excluded money from those rewards. So there are so many practical solutions they have just ignored that "economy" sounds a bit like an excuse right now.

- that economy gets mistreated every day and no one seem to care. So, why does economy suddenly become relevant only when it comes to books, when they allow permanent shadow form, when they allowed exploitation of HFFF and botting for over an year and so on? Again, economy sounds like an excuse...

Abedeus · Nov 21, 2008, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

I think he's saying:

- that economy has really nothing to do with the complaints about book. Had factions awarded for a completed book been retroactive, it could have gone straight to your title track. Even if they went for the "pay-per-fill-pages" route, they could have just excluded money from those rewards. So there are so many practical solutions they have just ignored that "economy" sounds a bit like an excuse right now.

- that economy gets mistreated every day and no one seem to care. So, why does economy suddenly become relevant only when it comes to books, when they allow permanent shadow form, when they allowed exploitation of HFFF and botting for over an year and so on? Again, economy sounds like an excuse...

Pretty much. They have let Ursan and now Shadow Form to rampage through economy like a fiery elephant through a Chinese fireworks shop. And now they are using the very same economy as an excuse?

It's like crapping on someone's door and then asking him for a towel to clean your butt.

About my previous post: Economy might NOT exist (because honestly...) or it's just so damaged nobody will see if it really died. Maybe it did. Understand now?

cataphract · Nov 21, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

I didn't require an explanation in the first place.

Why are you people so serious about this? You're approaching the anal-retentive point. Get over it. Books weren't made retroactive, you were given an explanation why. EOD. Beating a dead horse will not make aNet do a roll-back or fork over the gold you assume you deserve.

Jongo River · Nov 21, 2008, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

- that economy has really nothing to do with the complaints about book. Had factions awarded for a completed book been retroactive, it could have gone straight to your title track.

Granted, the economy argument is weak, but it's not like there's only one issue here, or a simple solution. Fully retro-active rewards would have seriously peeved players who spent the past couple of years grinding the title, with whatever means were available at the time. Those same people likely also have their protector and guardian titles - retro-active faction would render a significant chunk of their work null and void, likely leading to another couple of multi-page rants.

ANet could not treat everyone "fairly", but they did strike a good balance. We got *some* retro-active rewards and better options to make the title more accessible, without anybody being able to accuse them of "making it easier" or handing out instant titles. I couldn't be happier with what they did for us.

Ate of DK · Nov 21, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

We will soon have our answers.

Quote from Regina's Journal on official wiki, November 21th 2008:
To address a few key issues raised by the November 13 Game Update, I have asked the developers to write a Developer Update to follow-up on those points. This will be published in English, German, French, Spanish, and Italian -- tomorrow on the wiki.

xxod · Nov 21, 2008, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

We will soon have our answers.

Quote from Regina's Journal on official wiki, November 21th 2008:
To address a few key issues raised by the November 13 Game Update, I have asked the developers to write a Developer Update to follow-up on those points. This will be published in English, German, French, Spanish, and Italian -- tomorrow on the wiki.

Looking forward to see those answers

Gill Halendt · Nov 21, 2008, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jongo River

Fully retro-active rewards would have seriously peeved players who spent the past couple of years grinding the title, with whatever means were available at the time. Those same people likely also have their protector and guardian titles - retro-active faction would render a significant chunk of their work null and void, likely leading to another couple of multi-page rants.

See, I'm among those.

I've two characters who've grinded all the rep titles already, except the account-based allegiance title (currently r10 Kurzick). Those are my main and my best secondary characters. My main is also Legendary Guardian. I've many more toons tough - most of them got all the three Protector titles - and I've never considered grinding again for each of them.

With retroactivity in place, I could get the chance to improve all of my other characters' rep titles considerably (and PvE skills tied to them), without that much grinding, so I wouldn't really complain about the grinding I consciously chose to do in the past.

Takeko Nakano · Nov 21, 2008, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

We will soon have our answers.

"It's too hard to make the changes you want, so we're not going to try."

Ate of DK · Nov 21, 2008, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

"It's too hard to make the changes you want, so we're not going to try."

Most likely.

Abedeus · Nov 21, 2008, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

Most likely.

I think this will be another reason not to trust A.Net about GW 2. I mean, if they can make retroactive books without having a title, yet they can't make retroactive books even WITH a title... Then it's really, really bad.

I mean, come on, the game already has registered what missions a character has completed, if the character has finished all of them on NM/HM, if finished with bonus... Completely doable.

DreamWind · Nov 21, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

The update can only mean one of three things:

A. "Retroactive books affect the economy here is how"

B. "Making them retroactive is too hard to implement"

C. "We are making the books retroactive"

I can tell you right now if they choose the A or B route I will call them out on several points.

Oh yea and what is this about people not wanting the gold from the books? I think they should get that too because we have no legit argument that it affects the economy significantly. If Anet comes out with some data to back up those claims I would be pretty surprised, then I'll ask them where their data on shadowform was.

Frozy · Nov 21, 2008, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Oh yea and what is this about people not wanting the gold from the books? I think they should get that too because we have no legit argument that it affects the economy significantly. If Anet comes out with some data to back up those claims I would be pretty surprised, then I'll ask them where their data on shadowform was.

Saying we don't care about the gold at all would be a lie, but it's a minor reward compared to the hours of grinding the faction reward saves us.

I don't believe it'll affect the economy either, but i cannot be sure.

DreamWind · Nov 21, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozy

Saying we don't care about the gold at all would be a lie, but it's a minor reward compared to the hours of grinding the faction reward saves us.

Yea I know, but there are some people here who are completely conceding the gold point for some reason even though I think that is a key part of this. To me the most important thing that happened here is Anet is either completely contradicting themselves or just flat out making false statements. At this point I see no other possibility. Hell that is probably a larger problem than the update itself. We will see what todays update says and maybe I will be proven wrong.

Rocky Raccoon · Nov 21, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

I really hope ANET stands their ground. To cave in, to about 40 or 50 people who have been whining about parts of the update they don't like, would not be a good idea in my opinion. It would only prove that holding your breathe and kicking your feet works.

Ate of DK · Nov 21, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really hope ANET stands their ground. To cave in, to about 40 or 50 people who have been whining about parts of the update they don't like, would not be a good idea in my opinion. It would only prove that holding your breathe and kicking your feet works.

One of the problems with forums is that you never know how many people have a problem with something. Just 15 minutes ago I entered the Guild Teamspeak and informed those who were present about the "news" that will be handed out tonight on the books ("problem").

I'm a forum reader and offcourse under the impression that everyone knows that the forumcommunity is upset and discusses this "problem". The people on Teamspeak play every day, PvE and PvP, and aren't even aware that there is a "problem". And most of the time they don't want to understand it because they enjoy the game as it is.

Skyy High · Nov 21, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

A. "Retroactive books affect the economy here is how"

B. "Making them retroactive is too hard to implement"

C. "We are making the books retroactive"

How about: D. "Stop whining, you did the missions in the first place without the promise of a faction reward, and now you have the option to do them again to get some faction. Or do a challenge mission. Or vanquish. Or FA/JQ. Or AB. Or don't do it at all, we really don't care, but stop expecting handouts when we just gave you so much cool new stuff."

And to follow up with Ate: I'm literally the only person in my alliance who reads forums, and one of about 5 who even reads the update notes/official wiki on a regular basis. When something big like this happens and I start trying to relate what's happening to them, I get the equivalent of a bunch of blank stares, followed by something along the lines of, "Why do people care so much again?", which is then followed by a call to vanquish something or do a dungeon.

Most people are too busy having fun to worry about crap like this. As much as I've learned from forums, sometimes I wish I never joined as well...

upier · Nov 21, 2008, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

The people on Teamspeak play every day, PvE and PvP, and aren't even aware that there is a "problem". And most of the time they don't want to understand it because they enjoy the game as it is.

ANIMALS!
How can you live among such creatures?!?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

... to rampage through economy like a fiery elephant through a Chinese fireworks shop ...

Best. Mental. Image. Of. The. Day.
Win. WIN. WIN!